This is what I know
Hi Guys-

As I related at the BOD meeting last night the WDFW is seeking input on the Chehalis system steelhead fishery for this year. The predicted run size includes a harvestable surplus this year of wild fish and they are looking at 3 options for management:

Background data for 2003

run size 10975 wild fish estimated
treaty catch 648
Chehalis tribal 330 this leaves 9997 wild fish
e-goal 8600
Available 9997-8600 = 1397 fish available for possible sport use

Option 1: Season: Mar 1-7
Predicted catch of 145 to 196 fish, leaving a buffer of 1201 fish

Option 2: Season: Mar 24-31
Estimated catch: 166 to 223, leaving a buffer of 1074 fish

Option 3: Extend Wild Steelhead Release (WSR) season for 2 weeks to April 15 on the Wynooche and Satsop and to April 30 on the Chehalis.

No information was provided on hooking mortality, but I assume that it is less than the buffer amount.

The Advisory Group was about divided in their vote for these options: 9 for option 2 and 8 for option 3.

Data shows the Chehalis system has been above the escapement goal for 4 years without a kill fishery by roughly 500 to 3000 fish with last year being about 10,500 fish escaping to the spawning grounds.

Other facts:

The Chehalis system was underescaped between 1987 and 1997 except for 1989 when it just made the goal.

The Wnyooche has made escapement since 1894, except for 87, 92 and 96.

The Satsop has been underescaped since 1987 except for just making it in 93, 94, 98, and making it by 700 or so fish in 02.

The mainstem of the Chehalis has been underescaped since 1987 except for 99 and 2000.

We reviewed this fishery last year in the Advisory Group and Nate and I (along with a few others) voted for WSR. The Department followed that option. They now seem to favor a kill fishery, as it has been closed for a long time (to a kill fishery).

I again voted for WSR suggesting it would be better to allow the fish to spawn and hopefully build the run higher before a harvest.

I talked to B. Leland today and he said there is still a small amount of time to get comments in. He suggested sending e-mail comments to him and Bob Gibbons. I would suggest sending them also to Director Jeff Koenings and Bill Freymond. Here are those address'

Bob Leland lelandrfl@dfw.wa.gov
Bob Gibbons gibborgg@dfw.wa.gov
Jeff Koenings koenijpg@dfw.wa.gov
Bill Freymond freymbhf@dfw.wa.gov

Time is of the essence. Try to get comments in by the end of the week as they will make their decision early in March.

Cheers-dick

Jerry-
I presume you had that detailed information (at least in general form) after yur board meeting - why not include that in the first post. Stirring the pot?

The three options you present (via Dick) are all targeted at killing additional wild fish. The first two in directed harvest of wild fish and the third in hooking mortality in a WSR fishery for an aditional 2 to 4 week period.

Based on the comments above it seemed most were preferring an additional option - put them all on the spawning grounds - leave the season as is (somewhat surprised that at least on the committee didn't lean this way). Others (Todd et al) seem to prefer killing some additional wild fish just as long it is in a WSR fishery (willing to sacrifice some fish for increased opportunity?).

As always it seems these debates are as much about who gets what piece of the pie as it is the fish's needs.

Tight lines
Smalma

Please call Bill Cambell(WDFW acting agent) at 360-249-1203 to voice any concerns or questions regarding the status of this proposal.

Darin

Smalma, I received the email with the detailed info Wednesday night at 6:05 on my work computer and posted it when I got to work Thursday am, so not trying to stir the pot. I thought the issue was serious enough to post the info I had before I got the follow-up email. Apparently by the "stir the pot" comment you must feel the numbers in the email indicate that we should have a kill fishery.

Jerry -
The first posting seem to indicate that the only item of discussion was whether to harvest the"surplus" fish or not and no CnR.

Turn outs that CnR (WSR) is an option (#3). Further, that under even the most harvest directed option a 12.5% buffer is expected over the escapement goal.

I was not adovacating harvest or no harvest -just that the two situations above are very different and I found the first post unnecessarily misleading.

I thought a year or so ago I made my position on what I thought steelhead management guidelines could be pretty clear.

For consideration - if a 12.5% buffer above the escapement goal is not enough (let's save the discussion of the whether the goal is correct or not for later), how much buffer would be enough? Should the same buffer apply to any CnR fisheries targeting wild fish? If not why not?

Tight lines
Smalma

What frustrates me is the channel of communication. Why did I have to find out about this on this board? Where is WDFW's public notice on their website? Newspapers?

Again, seems they are trying to slide something by us with little input.

Smalma- A cnr fishery with hatchery retention and a longer season would be a better option than a short wild kill season and no hatchery retention after the river closes.I don't know the numbers[perhaps nobody does] but maybe removing more hatchery fish from the system so they don't spawn with wild fish[with the lower survival rate of hatch/wild interaction] might offset the hooking mortality in a cnr season. I'm also concerned that a large percentage of wild fish killed may be hens for the eggs and it's my belief that hens are more valuable than the bucks on a one to one basis. Sorry about the crack about your beliefs about harvesting the fish, that was stirring the pot. :p

Allow me to be the lone dissentor on the native kill plan for the chehalis system.Although i do release natives,i have bonked 18lbd hatchery fish.So have most, if not all of you.I have seen many of you show big hatchery steelies ,in person inpicture,on these pages that you took home and ate.I dont know the return on hatchery spawns but i know their real close to the return on native spawn.I dont think many of us has caught an actual native.That native that you released was a hatchery spawn or a fish that didnt get clipped.so before a bunch of you hatchery fish eaters get real upset,think about releasing that next nice hatchery fish you or your client takes home.

I vote for a longer season with selective gear rules and good c&r practices by anglers, to keep wild steelhead hooking mortality down . Allow continued retention of hatchery fish to keep hatchery/wild interaction down. The fish win, the anglers win, seems like a win-win to me. What am I missing here?

"I dont know the return on hatchery spawns but i know their real close to the return on native spawn."

Wrong. Hatchery fish spawning in the wild have a much lower success rate than natives. And because of that, it's not very likely that the natives we catch are actually the result of hatchery fish spawning.

Smalma, The info I received was that the state was moving toward a wild kill. Your right about there being 3 options, it seemed their mind was made up to remove some of those pesky wild fish.

Jerry -
Of course all three options would be removing some of those "pesky" wild fish from the spawning population.

With the various sections of the Chehalis open for an extra 2 to 4 weeks how wild fish would be released? From all reports there can be dozens of boats a day on the system with even more bankies with good catch rates. Apply a 10% handling mortality (want to err on the side of fish of course) the wild fish mortality would likely approach that being proposed in the first 2 options. So the discussion is not really about what is best for the fish but rather what user group gets to use (kill) that resource.

Tight lines
Smalma

thank you fishalot ive been saying that alot they cant clip all the fish and not all hatchery fish spawn at the hatchey so all there off spring are wild fish NOT you guys are going to flame me on this but i think those extra fish are dead anyway you look at it either you get them or the indains will rember its the goverment they do what they want and say something different its happening in the midleast right now i dont trust this goverment at all

You know, smalma, that's such a load. Is closing the entire system down completely an option? If it's not, then WDFW has determined that x amount of fish ARE going to be harvested. That being said, what kind of jackass would want to minimize the revenue that would be generated by such a harvest?

"Use" the resource in a manner which minimizes revenue? Good work, WDFW.

Smalma,

As you know, we usually agree on most everything regarding wild steelhead management...or agree to disagree

This time, however, I'm going have to join Dan S. and call bull$hit...

Even if we accept your simplification that it's not about saving fish, that it's about who gets to kill them, there are signficant differences between the "who gets to kill 'em" options...and they're not allocation issues.

1. Revenue-this is pretty obvious, I think. Fishermen will spend more money in a month than they will in 3-7 days. The argument that effort will drastically reduce due to the requirement to release wild fish doesn't work, either, because it will still be open for retention of hatchery fish.

2. Reduction of hatchery/wild introgression-if a clipped fish retention season lasts a month rather than 3-7 days, more hatchery fish will be removed from the system, meaning less will spawn or attempt to spawn in the system. You know the science better than I do as to the damage done to wild fish by hatchery fish spawning in the river.

3. Satisfaction of those who wish to harvest fish-a month of hatchery fish retention with WSR will put a lot more fish in the freezer than a 3-7 day kill fishery.

Those factors, among others, make a month long selective fishery better than a three day kill fishery, even if I accept that the real issue is just that of allocation, i.e., a battle between the two groups who will kill fish in any fishery, directly or indirectly.

However, I don't accept that as true, either.

What's the projection? Something like 130 wild fish harvested in the kill option? Even using the 10% incidental mortality you cited above that would mean 1300 fish would have to be cnr'd to reach that same level of harvest. That's just not going to happen, and the actual amount cnr'd, multiplied by 10%, will likely be much, much less than 130 fish.

[EDIT: I just re-read the proposals and was reminded that the projected wild fish harvest under options one or two ranges from 143 or so to 223 or so. These numbers make the above argument regarding relative mortalities between the options even more compelling...1400 fish cnr'd would be even more amazing, and 2300 of them would be almost unbelievable. Not just an allocation issue... ]

While I appreciate "erring on the side of the fish", as you noted above, presumably due to the inordinate amount of times you've had that phrase thrown at you, I think it better applies to things we don't know. The compilation of all the available steelhead hook and release mortality studies, which you've seen, shows a pretty consistent 3%-5% mortality.

I'm having a really hard time seeing why any other option even comes close to option three, in terms of conservation, opportunity, or revenue, not to mention reducing a bit of the pressure on the Sauk/Skagit and OP streams.

Fish on...

Todd.

Oh, yeah, anyone who truly believes that either there are no wild fish, or that hatchery fish spawning in the wild is in any way good, then they are completely ignorant of the ALL the current scientific data whose results are directly contrary to those beliefs.

Why not leave it the way it is. And weither it is Broodstocking with native parents, Hatchery fish or true nates Spawning in the wild is all Theory = Science. Sure Nates might have a higher success rate, But it is also run timing, Not alot of nates in the systems in Dec when the hatchery fish try to spawn, Could that be because mother nature and raging rivers over time wiped out the earlier nates .It is all Theory, Projected returns are theory, Spawning is theory. This years returns are sure not what everyone projected and if you truely think the system will meet it's escapement this year, I will tell you that at this time last year the numbers where far higher, Just my rantings

Todd -
What would be the fun if we all always agreed? It is the healthy debate of issues that explore all sides that results in the increase of the collective knowledge of those in the debate. It is only those who unwilling to look at the various sides of an issue that are doomed to remain in ignorance.

To your points
1) I have long (back to the 1970s) made the argued that CnR fisheries often produce more man-days of fishing per day fish. However not all anglers wish to participate in such fisheries. It may well be that more license buyers wish to bonk the occassional or not so occassional fish on the Chehalis. The fact that the steelhead advisory committee voted more or less evenly on this issue it may be a close call on this basin.

2) In the Bolt case area when there are not harvestable wild fish the fisheries have been managed under wild steelhead release (WSR) regulations. Such regulations remain in place until there are few hatchery fish (at least unspawned fish) available. In rivers planted with Chambers Creek type fish that is the end of February. While I'm not very familar with the Chehalis system and its fisheries management it would appear that a latter timed brood stock is used thus the end of March end of WSR on the Satsop/Wynoochee and the end of April on the Skookumchuck. Additional spring fishing may well not provide much additional opportunity at hatchery fish. Do you or any locals know if many fresh winter hatchery fish are entering the Satsop/Wynoochee at the end of March or the Skookumchuck the last of April?

There may not be many hatchery fish to kill.

3) While your proposed hooking mortality rates may be appropriate with highly skilled and conscious anglers many are not. Those that frequent this board undoubtly are more passion and better informed anglers than the average angler but one doesn't have look very long to find photo examples of fish not being handled in a manner that would insure its best chance of survival. Bob Hooten the guru of steelhead and steelhead hooking mortalities studies (source of much of your mortality estimates) from BC has recommended that in general fisheries the values from his studies be doubled - ergo the 10%.

Given all the miles of water that would be open to the catching of wild fish how a day do you think might be handled? I continually hear of multiple fish days per boat.

Again I enjoy these debates and it is through them that I'm have been able to expand my limited knowledge.

Tight lines
Smalma

i've caught caught a hatchery hen with tight eggs in the last week of april on the skook lat year( i think it'd already been recycled though)...they don't put any hatchery fish above skookumchuck dam ...only 'feral' or wild....though hatchery fish spawn below the dam...i forget how late they take eggs...gotta double check...but i think they're done by the beginning of april....

I want to be sure to get this right... With all the state budget cuts going around our local hatcherys are in jeopardy so...instead of allowing the "surplus" of wilds that have made it past pollution, nets, and destruction of habitat, we are going to allow the kill of a valuable asset that may reduce the future need of state involvement to supplement the return of steelhead to our rivers. I think I got that right, but I still don't get it....